Renata Bernarde
- Jun 29, 2020

How to succeed in another country

Episode 36 - Australia and Me: A Conversation with Top 50 CMO Mohit Bhargava

Mohit Bhargava, the Chief Marketing Officer of some of Australia's favorite entertainment brands, has a theory that can help you thrive in a new country.

Mohit Bhargava has held senior marketing roles in some of the most iconic Australian entertainment businesses and was recognized by his peers as one of the top 50 Chief Marketing Officers (CMO) in Australia two years in a row. He most recently was the CMO at Big4, a network of holiday parks located throughout Australia.

Mohit was previously the general manager of sales and marketing at Village Entertainment, a subsidiary of Village Roadshow Limited. This Australian company operates cinemas and theme parks and produces and distributes films. He also worked as a senior digital marketer at Nova Entertainment, an Australian entertainment company using commercial radio networks in metropolitan and regional areas, a pay television station, and mobile brands.

Mohit is about to start a new role, and we are not able yet to announce it, but it's based in South East Asia. It will expand his horizons and leverage his entertainment and hospitality industry expertise, particularly around marketing to families, dealing with disruption, and improving a brand's approach to multicultural marketing.

I invited Mo to be my guest for many reasons. Firstly, we have bonded over our passion for helping international students and migrants adjust to living and thriving as professionals in Australia. We've come from different parts of the globe - him from India, I from Brazil - and we've made it here, but not without challenges. We both feel we have a lot to help and support those who are ambitious for their careers. Each of us, in our way, has been doing just that.

Secondly, I wanted Mohit to speak to the listeners of this podcast because he has an impressive and impeccable leadership style. Mo exudes confidence yet is not afraid to show vulnerability. He has command of his expertise and is not afraid to niche down. Yet one could hire him to run marketing and sales in a different sector and feel very confident he can deliver. He uses his diversity as a strength and a weapon in his toolkit to help his employer achieve more, grow markets, and understand the new demographics of multicultural families, couples, and young people living and spending in Australia.

And finally, Mo has a 3-step philosophy - or framework - on how someone from overseas can adapt to a new country. He thought of it for Indians moving to Australia, but I believe it lends itself perfectly well for any expat, migrant or international student moving to a different country. Listen, and let me know if you agree with me!

We start the conversation very casually, and I hope you don't mind that I decided not to edit it out because I have been enjoying more and more podcasts that are very conversational. I hope you feel like a fly on the wall as we start getting ready for our chat.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Timestamps to guide your listening

Transcript of this episode

Renata: A few weeks ago, I interviewed my friend Mohit Bhargava to talk to you about his career as a Chief Marketing Officer and the Senior Marketing Professional in Australia. Mohit moved to Australia as a 17-year-old from India, with his family and graduated from Latrobe University as a graduate from the business faculty. His career has, has been absolutely fantastic. He has worked for some of the most iconic organizations in Australia. He has held senior marketing roles in the entertainment business and was recognised by his peers as one of the top 50 chief marketing officers in Australia, two years in a row. Most recently he was chief marketing officer of Big 4, a network of holiday parks that are located throughout Australia. And during his time in the company, Big 4 announced a partnership with The Wiggles, which wherever you are in the world, if you know kids, you may know The Wiggles, they are an Australian children's music group and they're famous worldwide.

Renata: He was previously the general manager of sales and marketing at Village Entertainment. Village Entertainment is a subsidiary of Village Roadshow limited an Australian company, which operates cinemas, theme parks, and produces and distributes films in Australia. He also worked as a senior digital marketer at Nova entertainment, and that one is an Australian entertainment company that operates radios, a paid TV channel, and mobile brands. So as you can see, these are very strong businesses in the entertainment sector, but, you know, Mohit almost didn't stay in Australia. When he graduated from Latrobe business faculty, he received from his mentor the advice to go back home to India. And that was really a sliding doors moment for him. And thank goodness he stayed because as somebody in the senior leadership role in marketing in Australia, he was able to use that expertise in the entertainment and hospitality industry to enhance those businesses, marketing around families, deal with the disruption in those sectors and improve those brands approach multicultural marketing.

Renata: He is about to start a new role in Southeast Asia, which we're not supposed to announce. So we'll be quiet for now, but when we're able to announce it, we will. So follow us on our Facebook page. We have a private Facebook group for job hunters and career enthusiasts. So if you're really serious about your career development, you might want to join us in that private Facebook group, which is a place where you can feel safe, sharing questions and ideas about career development. And I also have a newsletter for my followers and my community. And there is a link in the episode show notes that you can tap on it and subscribe to the newsletter so that you will receive these podcasts weekly, as well as a curated list of articles about career development. In any news that I have for you, such as where Mohit will be working next.

Renata: I started this podcast episode with more hits in a very different way. I decided not to edit out the chit chat that we had at the beginning. It's very casual, the way that we start conversations when I start talking to my guests and I decided just to leave this one here for you so that you can feel like a fly on the wall as we start getting ready for our chat. And just to make it easier for you. If you want to skip ahead, I have decided to do timestamps to guide you in your listening. So you can move forward and skip to listen to Mohit’s story about his graduation day and the advice that he received that day. And then after that, he will talk about his first job and how he found it through networking and then how he uses LinkedIn, which was a question that I had for him because his profile is just so, so good.

Renata: And I was so impressed. Then there is his three-step philosophy to succeeding in a new country, which I think will be a very good listen to anyone that comes from overseas. Like myself. It doesn't matter if you've come from overseas and you're in a different country. It doesn't have to necessarily be Australia. If you are an international student, a migrant, or an expat, it would be wonderful for you to listen to his philosophy of how you arrive, grow, and propel in a different country. He will talk also to you about his leadership mindset and how he's getting ready for his new role in a new country and a new organization. So look at the episode, show notes for those timestamps, as well as any links that we mentioned and links to my services and my website, and of course, to sign up for the newsletter, as I said before. So without further ado here is my friend Mohit, and I hope you enjoy this chat bye for now.

Renata: During Podcasts. You can hear them complaining about the heat in the studio. And I often hear also people joking about being inside a wardrobe or inside the closet, especially during COVID times. I listen a lot to Mia Freeman at the Mamamia, they're always, you know, talking about where they are and noises outside. It's quite funny.

Mohit: You can hear the kids running around. So what's your, what's your, okay. What are your goals out of this? So I have that in the back of mind.

Renata: Okay. So this podcast is for job hunters. And for people that are interested in their careers and their career progression, I'm very interested in the stats for the podcast. And I'm always surprised I had no idea that it was going to be listened in as many countries as it is. So it's 50 plus countries at the moment.

Mohit: Wow.

Renata: And the podcasts tend to spike when they're launched. So they get like a few hundred views during the week that they launched, but they live forever and they don't age really because it's career-related topics. And we did have a COVID series. But I think even the COVID series, which is about the VUCA world, about finding jobs during turbulent times and preparing for catastrophic things to happen in your life. We had this very interesting guy who is an economist and, behavior scientists talking about the feeling, getting ready for disasters. And, we had sort of those things that were very COVID related, but applicable at other times as well. Yeah. So I think all of the episodes keep turning on, on iTunes and Spotify or wherever people find them. And really the first few episodes which were about brand and narrative and communicating your pitch to employers and hiring managers, those are still the most popular ones.

Renata: And I think I needed to get them out of my chest. These were things that were in my head for years, you know, and I just needed to get them out of my chest. They were very low tech and they did really well.

Mohit: Great.

Renata: So now I've been more interested in using the podcast to interview people like you Mo because it adds a different flavor every week to the audience. I have people that are following the podcast. I send a newsletter to hundreds of people every week to let them know that there is a new episode available.

Mohit: How many episodes have you got now?

Renata: Now 35.

Mohit: And how many guys?

Renata: How many what?

Mohit: Guys. On the interview, or girls.

Renata: Oh good question. You would be the fifth guy.

Mohit: Okay.

Renata: Yes. Fifth guy I think, I couldn't be wrong, but I think that that's what it is. And I do have more ladies interviewed so far, but I have a few guys coming up, so, yeah. So that's good. Hopefully, you know we good to have a 50 50.

Mohit: And it also depends on your audience right? To an extent.

Renata: Well, my audience, even if we have more women, which I don't know because it doesn't show, I have to say that they will still work with men.

Mohit: Yeah yeah of course. It’s like you need that. Yeah. You need that even keel because it can become, you don't want it to be the mama Mia of job hunting podcasts.

Renata: No, not really. I, at one point I did think that I was going to be the career coach that support women. But I think I'm more the career coach that supports people that are in their mid to late thirties onwards. I understand what it feels to be at that point in your career where you feel that you're stuck in a rut that you don't know how to progress any further. And that can happen to men and women, you know, and also I've been made redundant. I had to all the vulnerability…

Mohit: I actually listened to that podcast. Yeah.

Renata: It happens to both. And I have clients that are men and women, and I feel like I help them both. And I can't help everybody. I think I will click with a few people more than I used…

Mohit: There has to be chemistry as a coach.

Renata: Yes. What I do is if I feel that I am not the right coach for a specific client, I will refer them to someone else. And sometimes, you know what, I refer them to lawyers because sometimes you don't need a coach. You need legal advice and maybe you need a coach to tell you that maybe you don't see it yourself, but you probably do need legal advice. And that's fine too. You know, it's part of the deal. I mean, you were a senior exec, you know, that, you know, some of the packages and proposals that we get are complex and they've been written with several hands and you're just one person why not get the advice that you need to before you lock in a deal or exit an organization. Right.

Mohit: Completely makes sense.

Renata: So let's talk about your career now.

Mohit: Happy to do it. Yep. So I'll be led by your questions, right?

Renata: I want to start by talking about your graduation day.

Mohit: Sure.

Renata: And the fact that you did not attend the graduation day?

Mohit: Well, I sort of did.

Renata: Yes. Explain, explain what happened that day.

Mohit: Um, okay. So look, my graduation day, I was present, but in a different capacity. So I was actually working at the function hall on campus, serving drinks and canapes to graduating students. So my fellow classmates and their families, which at the time I thought was a pretty smart way of kind of attending the graduation cause I was getting paid and I didn't have to sit through the entire ceremony, which for a 21-year-old can be a bit cumbersome. But what I had planned was a celebratory drink, with a close mentor of mine when I had, when I was going to finish my shift, which was just downstairs at the university bar.

Mohit: Now this mentor has had been somebody very close, very encouraging over the last 4 years of campus life. And I frankly give him a lot of credit, for all the small achievements and challenges that I took on at that time. But we were gonna, you know, we were gonna sit down over a drink and talk about what I do next. What options should I explore? And as we started discussing the prospects, you know, his, I think his response somewhat shocked me to be honest, because it was very, very single-minded in the, in the notion that I should pack up my bags and, and return to India. And I, you know, as much as I was taken aback, I knew that he meant, well, he's been somebody that I've known for years and he has my best interest at heart.

Mohit: So I took that advice. I somewhat slept on it. I woke up thanked him for that advice reconnected, but it was up to me at that point to really make a big decision in life, you know, is this, is this the time for me to still take on this individual's advice or am I ready to make up my own mind and take on a different direction? So I chose to take in a different direction and stay on. And, uh, perhaps I was young and idealistic, I don't know. But frankly, I think there's two elements to that that really stuck out one was, you know, the advice that was provided to me was based on another person's opinion of Australia at the time and how they saw the country and they're from, they were from a different background, a different age to where I sat. And look looking back 15 years on, I think even longer now, I'm proud of what Australia is today and, and the opportunities that I have, um, been given, and not just given I have earned those opportunities as well, but, yeah, so that was, that was graduation day. It was quite a, quite a memorable one for me. Uh, but for different reasons.

Renata: Yes, that's very interesting because you were very young and you had to take that advice. And I was when you have broken, was that a heartbreaking thing to listen to?

Mohit: Sincerely no I'm actually, I was more heartbroken about it just a few months ago when I was invited back to the university to speak at a commencement speech and I chose to talk about this story, which I actually have not shared with many people for several years. And because I think I'm now at a point where, you know, you've had enough life experience to realize what that kind of advice can mean to someone at that age. I don't think I was, my emotional maturity probably wasn't at a point where I could truly understand the depth and level of that advice at that time. I just figured that, Hey, that's your point of view. So be it and I'm just going to press on.

Renata: And then he went on to become one of the top 50 chief marketing officers in Australia. Not only that but managing some of the most iconic brands in Australia, you know, Big 4, Village, Nova. That is amazing. Do you still, are you still connected with that person? Is that person still in your network?

Mohit: Was for a few years and then we've just lost touch, to be honest. You know, yeah, we just lost touch.

Renata: So what do you think happened there? What, how was he not in keeping with the times, or were you so ambitious and excited about your career? What opened the doors for you to enable you to achieve that?

Mohit: Look, all of my, you know, you can only join the dots backward. I wish I could tell you the formula, but I can share my experiences and I hope they help. So how I got my first job, right? It was, unconventional. I had applied for some graduate programs and, you know, I got some interviews, but I wasn't very successful in that process, but all the same time, I was still bartending and working at the same union hall that we mentioned. And as it happened, I got my first job off the back of serving a drink. And that came back to just showing interest in other people, this gentleman walked up to the bar. He was very well dressed and he certainly didn't look like an academic. So he stuck out a bit in a university campus and he ordered a beverage, you know, Jim Beam and Coke, and it was still daylight and no one on campus orders, those sort of drinks in, unless it's Friday, you know, there's a big university party.

Mohit: And it wasn't busy. So I just chose to ask the question. I was like, what brings you to the campus? I haven't seen you here before and so on and so forth. And it turned out that this gentleman was the marketing director for Jim beam bourbon in Australia.

Renata: No wonder that he was drinking Jin beam.

Mohit: He had a sort of, you know, sort of brand in hand mantra and I feel like, and, you know, and we just got talking and he was, he was at the time surveying Australian campuses with the prospect of building a brand marketing program to promote the brand across campus bars in Australia. And, and we really struck a chord, you know, because I lived on campus. I understood campus life very well. I was the president of a student club. I obviously understood bio life on campus.

Mohit: I was working there, I'd studied marketing. So we, you know, we, we really felt that there was chemistry and he, he generously gave me his business card and said, Hey, you know, get in touch if once you've finished. And if you're looking for other, other opportunities and so forth and, you know, and, and I chose to make a phone call a couple of weeks later, and I just said, Hey, why not? You know, and, and I, and I, I must admit, you know, at that age, sometimes you just don't even see the opportunity. So I was glad that I made that phone call. And then that was, that was that a few months later, I was part of building a campus marketing program for a global beverage company. And I did that for about three years. That was my graduate role. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a traditional, opportunity per se, but I think the key takeaway for me from that experience is that showing curiosity in other people can lead to very special outcomes for yourself.

Mohit: So the first thing in job hunting, and I think looking back, I've learned, this is you have to be astute in listening to what other people, what is the problem that people want to hire you to solve? And if you can position yourself in a way as a solution, that problem you'll be very effective in, in, in selling yourself in. So I think the first element is listening and showing curiosity, and that put me in good stead, you know, from there, I spent some years in ad agencies and then an opportunity came into, came up to join Nova. And that was a big national media organization, which was going through a digital transformation. So I took the opportunity, to learn on the job and, and, and build my digital skills. I was, you know it was one of the few in the organization that sort of, you know, really took that on and, and, and, and, and honed in on the digital side and took on some digital specific roles, which again, help round me out because I came from a traditional brand marketing, background in a beverage company, events sponsorship and so forth, and then moving into media, uh, comms and then taking on digital.

Mohit: So I was constantly trying to ensure that, you know, my skills are relevant. I was, I was engaged in my industry and my craft, and I knew what was in demand. And I would proactively find reasons, to take on an opportunity if it came up at work. And yeah, and look, you know, I, after Nova, I took a year off, I got married, I traveled around the world, which was the best education. I think that was the true MBA in terms of understanding cultures and people and in consumer psychology. And then I came back and, and then joined Village and it's another fantastic organization and, moved into, into, you know, large format, scaled out of home entertainment asset management. So cinemas, theme parks, and so forth is the portfolio of the business. That was fantastic because that opened me up to a different lens on understanding the pulse of the public.

Mohit: You know, the box office in a country can tell you a lot about the sentiment, the tastes, the choices of, uh, of, of, uh, people at large. And, and that's where I think wasn't, as someone who's migrated to Australia, I speak more than one language. I really started to understand the shift that's occurring in Australia. And that was to do more with how the box office is changing. You know, there were certain titles, let me think of one that I can, you know,

Renata: How people would respond to different movies?

Mohit: Of course, I mean, look, you know, we were seeing, this is going back a few years now, but you know, Australia's cinema market is fairly mature. It grows at about 2% a year. That's a good year, but we were seeing Bollywood grow at 28 to 30%.

Mohit: Right. So that's a growth opportunity. How do we actually optimize that? We were also seeing, genre movements, you know, so for instance, a film like Straight outta Compton, which is a very American story about African American culture and the struggle and so forth, you know, 15 years ago in Australia would be deemed quite niche. As you know, it would not appeal, to mass audiences per capita. When the film was released a couple of years ago, we actually over-indexed, in box office performance on that film. So you can see the tastes of the general public change, but beneath that, if you really start peeling the onion, what you're seeing is that the market is changing the makeup of the market. We were a far more diverse society. People relate and connect to different strong stories, you know, a struggle of a minority group, no matter their race is relatable to several other minority groups.

Mohit: So you, you know, we were getting, I think, that was a great time to really unpack what is occurring in Australia from, a cultural diversity standpoint and how it actually impacts mass entertainment businesses.

Renata: And you can use that information to then recycle it and…

Mohit: You optimize your retail mix. Right. And I mean, I think you see that now in, in, in grocery, how different outlets and the major major grocery stores operate and so forth. So, you know, uh, by and large, big business in Australia is still reacting to the change. A lot of businesses still don't get it. But yeah, so that's, that's been the journey, I mean, in terms of, and then of course, Big 4 holiday parts came up, which was, which was again, you know, very quintessential Aussie brand caravaning and campaign. And, you know, they, they sell a great proposition, which is about encouraging, Australian families to take great Ozzy break.

Mohit: And, and it's very relevant in today's times, which allowed me to venture into tourism and accommodation and leisure, which was another genre of entertainment if you like. And I fundamentally, the reason, one of the reasons for, for, taking that opportunity on was because I felt that Aussie families and what defines an Aussie family is changing. And there's a real opportunity to work with a, another great Australian brand to redefine that in how we actually evolve our view and, and become more inclusive, because, you know, there's still brands and the country at large, we still have a lot of work to do to make sure that, the lifestyle and the proposition that we offer as brands is truly inclusive. I mean, just recently I saw a, a brand that, you know, it's a great iconic Australian brand, and they were talking about, you know, how, you know, they wanted to hire the, a brand manager, but they, one of the select selection criteria. And I know, I know it was that it was done in good faith,

Renata: That’s the one I sent you. I sent you to get your opinion on it.

Mohit: Yes, that's right. But, you know, the selection criteria said, we're looking at and I must admit it, you know, since you've, since you shared that, I, I I've been pondering on it. And the selection criteria on that was, you know, one of our selection criteria was we're looking for a true blue Ozzy. Now I know, and you know, that, you know, brands do that sort of stuff sometimes just to have a bit of fun because that's, but for a lot of people, that might seem that, Oh, that's not me, you know, but they may have the perfect skill set for it. So, so I think there's a, there's a, there's a level of brand awareness, and work that still needs to be done in that element. But I think I'm digressing going back to the journey then I'm on. Yeah, that's, that's been my journey so far.

Renata: When I, I think LinkedIn is very telling of someone's personal brand. And when I looked at our shared connections, cause you have a lot of connections. I have a lot of connections when I look at our shared connections, what we share is a whole bunch of amazing marketing people and a whole bunch of amazing diversity and inclusion professionals. I think that that's, would you say that that's where your branding lies in terms of how you see yourself as a, you know, that top CML that understands diversity and how to incorporate that and embed that in an organization that still needs support with it?

Mohit: Look, I think the short answer is yes, that is certainly a tool in my toolkit that I bring to the table when, when I, when I join an organization or a cause, it has been nurtured over time. And, and also quite frankly, that has, that is my authentic journey from birth up until now. So it's not something that I have to try very hard to grasp. It's just part of who I am. And, and there's, there's different businesses and different needs. So in some instances, that tool is required more so than other instances. So I'm not by any means. You know, I'm a marketer that over, you know, just solely and wholly relies on one aspect of, of reinvigorating brands and businesses, but where it's required. Absolutely. It's a very dominant element of future-proofing brands. We have seen what's happened to Holden in this country.

Mohit: We have seen a lot of iconic Australian brands, you know, that have struggled to reinvent themselves, to suit contemporary Australia, because they have somehow failed or they need to hold a core audience. You know, they are the ones that really need to work through this challenge more so than others because it's, you know, Australia is changing the population mix is changing and will continue to change, whether we like it or not. And that's just an economic, assessment of your business, whether where you stand on it from a personal standpoint is, is really not my concern, but as a business and as a marketer, that's a very, it's a critical element of being successful in marketing in Australia today.

Renata: Yeah, that's a good answer. When I talking about LinkedIn, because in my coaching business, we're a bit obsessed with LinkedIn at the moment because we have nothing else to obsess about. As you know, we can't go out and have meetings. There is no workplace for us to gossip and network and no conferences, nothing. So LinkedIn is where people bump into each other these days. So I was looking at your profile and it's perfect. I'm I can't use that word perfect anymore because we've, um, interviewed Lynne Cazaly and she wrote a book about not needing to be perfect, but it's very good. Your profile is really, really well done. I notice you don't post or publish much, but you like and comment a lot. How do you use LinkedIn, is LinkedIn part of your networking toolkit, or do you work outside LinkedIn to do your networking and connecting?

Mohit: Sure. Look, it's a good question. I mean, so I'll, I'll answer the first element. The first part of your question as to how do I use LinkedIn? So there's, it has evolved over time for me. But the fundamental truth remains consistent LinkedIn is to me is a window to reflect my level of expertise in my profession. I'm not on the platform to sell anything. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not what I need to be doing to earn, earn a wage. So I specifically focus on content, that I believe adds value or things that I'm doing by way of work. If I share that it's done. So with the intent that my colleagues and network and can gain from it. And in terms of liking and commenting or some of the roles I've had have given me the good fortune of building a global network, the movie industry particularly is very global. So as a cinema industry, so LinkedIn is great to just subtly connect and remind people that, you know, I'm watching, I'm here for you. And these are colleagues, these are not friends. So, I may or may not be connected with them on Facebook and so forth. So yeah. So when do your comment about liking and commenting? That's, you know, my small way of just encouraging people with the work that they're doing, you know, and just supporting it.

Renata: Yeah. No, this works really well. And you may not see it or be aware of is that by liking and commenting, you're bringing people to your profile. I don't know if you've noticed that that's what it does. So that is a very good way of enhancing your personal brand and making people aware of what you're doing. Especially head hunters and people that want to scout you for opportunities. Yeah.

Mohit: Yeah. That makes good to know.

Renata: You don't necessarily need to post or write articles. All you need to do is like, and comment. And that's what I've been telling my clients that are very busy. You don't need to post, you just need to like, and comment because once you do that, you're reaching out to people that are not in your immediate audience, but you're making your activities boosting the algorithm.

Mohit: Yeah. And that, and thank you for that. That makes complete sense. The second part of your question about not writing articles on LinkedIn, look, I think I've over the last few years…

Renata: Because you’re a writer, that's what triggered me. I know you like to write, he doesn't write here.

Mohit: Well, two-part answer. One writing takes a lot of time, and unfortunately, I don't have enough time with a young family and trying to juggle a job and a few other things. The second part of that is, I relish the opportunities to help content creators create content. So a lot of the content that you'll see that I'm a part of on LinkedIn will be forums such as this. So I, when the opportunities are right and they're present themselves, you know, I'll contribute to a podcast or another series or something along those lines. So, yeah. So by doing so, I feel like I'm fulfilling my desire to share and add value where I can, without having to write a single-minded content from coming just from me.

Renata: That's excellent. Because talking about writing, you and I have been talking about the idea of a white paper or some sort of publication to put pen to paper and write about some of the ideas that you've been ruminating in your minds about coming to Australia at a young age and what the lessons that you've learned that you can pass on to other generations and help them establish themselves in Australia. And I'd love for you to explain to the listeners that framework that you explained to me about arriving, growing and propelling. Can you unpack that for us?

Mohit: Sure. I'll also offer a little more context if you like. So, so then look, I think, about a year ago, I just had a point of point in life where I realized I've spent more years in Australia, of my life than anywhere else. And also that happened in a moment where I was experiencing a different form of lockdown, unlike what we're all going through at the moment where I had gone through surgery and I was at home for six weeks and, you know, frankly, it gave me a real opportunity to look back and ponder as to what's been happening in life and take stock of things. And, I decided that you know, it was a great time to do just sort of sit back and start taking, just taking account for the last 20 odd years.

Mohit: And as I started doing that, what emerged was this sort of 10 step, not a program, but just these 10 steps. I was able to bucket my life into 10 key learnings and steps, and then I sort of, and as it goes, my, this is just how my brain works. Then I evolved that into, okay, well, that's 10. How do you, how do you sort of build this further into a framework, which is three stages in 20 years? And that was really about arrive and unlearn grow and fail and propel and learn, being the three different phases in those 20 years. Right. And, and look I don't think we have the time to go into the depth of each element today, but really arrive in and learn. The key themes really are when you, Australia is not America or the United Kingdom, it's a very unique country. It's much smaller, it's a smaller population on a big continent. So you have to really, you know, the old saying of, athletes who work harder in preseason do a lot better in season. So if you're somebody that's looking to arrive here, then you have to really prepare and do some homework beyond the obvious which everybody does. Right?

Renata: Can you repeat that about the athletes?

Mohit: The athletes who work harder in preseason will perform better in season.

Renata: Job hunters out there, are you listening to that? What have I been telling you. Plus it's a sports analogy now.

Mohit: I mean, it's the same as starting a new job or starting a new life. This is a new life. If you're coming to a new country, that's an element of transformation and transformation involves change. It involves changing every, not every element, but you will leave certain things behind. You'll take certain things forward to make room for new things to come in. You can be the full you and keep piling more stuff on because you will just bury yourself in it. So the arrive and unlearn element is really about, you know, truly getting a hold-off, doing, you know, what is Australia to you? How are you going to, you know, how does this cultural makeup sit with you? What elements of your physical, social, and cultural self-fit, which elements don't and how you transform and how you adapt and eventually integrate.

Mohit: And you know, for the younger listeners, there's this whole aspect of, you know, because I wrote this going back 20 years. So the first phase is don't just graduate. Everybody can do that. And if you did that and you didn't do anything else to integrate, you are way behind even the starting line, because you have no history in the country. You've got no built-in networks, and now you've just gone on and just, you know, invest in another three or four years of your educational life, pursuing something you and I could have done online. So why be here physically, if you're not going to build it up, build your networks up and really get matched de fit you, there you go. Another sports analogy, you know, you need to know how your fellow team players are gonna play on field. If you're really going to be effective on the field.

Mohit: It's not just about being able to kick the ball. You need to learn the language, the vernacular, the cultural makeup of what makes a team, effective and stay motivated. So these are things that you learn whilst you're studying, right? So, so that's, that's, that's the whole aspect of, and you know, and then you round yourself out by getting some part-time, work, volunteering, and all those things. I did all of this. So, so that really helped. So that's the arriving and learn piece, grow and fail is, is really, I think you'll have to, my grandfather used to always say this, that you have to eat the frog every morning, and which basically meant you have to do something that you don't like and do it early in the day. And one of the things that I learned early in my career was I needed to sell something because, you know, we, we, sales teaches you so much about yourself. It really teaches you a lot about how people work and think, but most importantly, it trains you on how to handle rejection on a daily basis.

Renata: I'm so glad you mentioned that. Can I stop you here and give you an example? When I left the MBA at Monash, you know, the students were very upset and I was very upset that I was leaving. So I wrote them an open letter and then they published it. And one of the things that I said is, never forget what I told you about getting a job at a call center because people come here and this was, 2008, 2009. So there were still call centers in Australia. And I said this is going to teach you so much about picking up the phone and talking to people and not feeling embarrassed about selling something and about optimism and building resiliency. There is nothing better than a call center to learn these things.

Mohit: Absolutely. I mean, look, you know, and you, then you evolve because if you see it as a real building exercise, it is character building. Let's be honest. The call center job is not an easy job, but you evolve from handling rejection to then gradually learning how to close. And that is, these are critical life skills in every element. And, you know, as we progress in life, we realize that we're talking about job hunting. You have to close, you know, you're there to sell yourself. And if you think your CV is going to do that for you, it's not the fact that you are in an interview, you'll see these done what it was going to do. It's got you through the door.

Renata: That's all that it needs to do. It doesn't need tell your whole story of your career. It just needs to get you a call.

Mohit: That's correct. And at that point you have to close and a, and that is selling.

Renata: And how many people sit at a job interview and don't tell the panel that they want the job.

Mohit: Yeah, I think in my experience, I've had only a few people truly say that they want the job. And, I remember every one of them, whether they got the job or not is another story, but I certainly think it helped him. And I can tell you exactly who they were even now looking back. So that's a very good point. So yeah, selling something is, has been a really, really interesting aspect and look, frankly, I've, I've now I'm now at a point where I relish it. So most of the roles I take have a sales element to them, because you have to have a growth mindset for the business.

Mohit: So marketing is evolving. My profession is evolving. Marketing is becoming more about how you actually drive value creation and growth for organizations. And if you don't understand sales, you you're really not in the right place a lot of times. So, so that's been, that's been critical. The other thing that, that a lot of us, I think, and while I certainly faced it or heard it, I should say more than anything else is when things are not going your way, a lot of people will. So, my heritage is Indian, right? So I, I would have a lot of people go, well, you know, that didn't happen for me probably is. Cause I'm an Indian or something along those lines. Now that may or may not be true, you actually don't know that. But regardless of whether that's true or not, you have to slay that dragon.

Mohit: Otherwise it's going to slay you for the rest of your years. A great example that someone that I can share with you of how you can handle that is a friend of mine. Also from a similar background, lived lives in New York and, you know, he was living in New York, in and around September 11th. And as you may recall, you know, when that incident occurred, there was a lot of racial unrest in New York and, you know, people were being mistaken for certain ethnicities and then being targeted and so forth. I actually found him just too out of concern to see how he's going and, you know, and he often says, you know, he's been, you know, he's, he's met a lot of idiots in his time, but he's never met somebody that's maliciously racist towards him as an individual.

Mohit: Now that's a great mindset because what that allows him to do is two things. One he's never blaming an entire population for one person's action. Also he's removing himself from being the problem. So it's critical to develop a mindset that allows you to overcome these barriers. Should you have them, if you don't have them, then great, go, go forth and go ahead. But, you know, we all face devils and, and it's, it's critical to define ways to overcome them. So that element is about growing and failing, selling overcoming own devils. And then understanding leadership here. I think, you know, that's a real, I see that a lot in corporate Australia where, you know, leadership compatibility is critical as you keep growing in your career. And, and that comes, you become more effective in different markets. If you have stronger depths of cultural competence, because leading people eventually is what you're doing in leadership roles, right?

Mohit: And that requires a deep sense of culture, individual, and bespoke style to match your various, you know, your team members’ indirect reports and so forth. And I think that's, in some ways, I believe that I have an advantage because I have learned transform studied culture to be able to pivot and adapt depending on the room I am in now, I would encourage all your listeners to carefully pay attention to this as they are gradually evolving in their own professional journeys, because also, you know, you're being groomed, but also you're being tested at every point in time. So when it comes to appointing one of four people at a certain management level to take on the next level, one of the elements in that is can this person lead inspire and motivate the other 20 people? And will he be able, he or she be able to connect with them at an emotional level.

Mohit: Now that is critical. So these are the things that go beyond your CV, right? So, cause at some point you're going to be off the tools at some point in your journey professionally, you know, whether it's design or whatever I can speak for marketing. You know, I used to love brands. I used to love the element of actually rolling my sleeves up and working on brand campaigns. But as your career progresses, you're playing the orchestra, which has all elements of a marketing team, as opposed to just working on brand. So what your job becomes is really about ensuring that the brand in person, the digital team, and all the other various resources and the capabilities operating at an optimum level, and that is just about getting the best out of people and that's leadership. And that style varies by culture. So you have to immerse yourself in Australian culture and professional culture to be able to truly affect, be effective in leadership.

Mohit: So that's, that's worked for me and I, and I don't say I have all the answers, but I actively study it because I recognize that that is going to be a challenge that I have to overcome from in my own growth journey at every step, along the way, from this point on, because I'm competing, not with, you know, I'm competing with everybody else on that table. And, and it's not just about other migrants or what have you, you know, at some point in your journey, it's going to be just, you're just here. So just forget about the migrant element and just start operating like you should be, which is being all in and being here and being present. So that's, yeah, that's, that's, I think I've gone too long.

Renata: No, no, that's, that's great. I think you've addressed all of the questions that I was going to ask you as well, but one of the things that I wanted to, maybe, as we are going into this tail end of the interview, ask you so that we can finish off on these maybe two final questions. People seek coaching when they're going through what you've just mentioned, the transition from being good at a specific skill set, their superpowers that they, you know, learned along the way to moving into a role where they need to be leaders. And that transition is a big step up. And looking back, what would you say prepared you best for that leadership, your first leadership role, where you are, you have this massive PNL, you have this massive, you know, team and responsibilities. I have to say that for me, you know, being a CEO, taking responsibility, especially in the, not for profit sector of an endowment where philanthropists and federal and state government gives you money to manage for the rest of that in perpetuity, I didn't realize how scary that was until I was physically doing that job. You know, and I, you know, grew that endowment. So I'm very proud of that, but it's very lonely at the top. And when you were applying for the role, you understand the theory of it, but not how the role actually is in practice, right?

Mohit: Yes, of course. I mean, look, I, you, you've just shared a great example. I think, for me, my first leadership role, it took me a little while to really come to come to the realization of the scale and, and the sense of consequence of not operating at an optimum level. But, one thing that I have always invested in is great relationships and mentors outside of work. And I have been fortunate to have some great, leaders that have, taught me and I've worked for them over the years and, and, you know, early on that's important, you know? So my first leadership role, yeah, the CEO of the company at the time was fully invested in my development and was, you know, somewhat of a pseudo coach if you like. So that was, that was really, really fantastic to have, in the organization itself.

Mohit: But, I have always try to ensure that I invest in relationships that helped me with my blind side, and I have some. And as you grow, you realize what those are. So, you know, they're not formal mentors, but they're just colleagues or, you know, people in relationships that I've cultivated over the years. And we, I, I diligently catch up with these individuals and then you, you know, do the delicate dance of having the conversations that you want to have whilst making a social catch-up. And frankly, I think they do the same. So, so, you know, the old saying, if you are the company, you would keep as critical. So you will, as you evolve, you know, that that element of your life should and will evolve also, that has really helped.

Renata: Yeah. The final question I want to ask you is about leading people. How, how do you find now you're moving into a role in Southeast Asia, are you doing a different preparation for leading people in a different environment or not? How do you approach them? What is your philosophy?

Mohit: Yeah, that's a great question. Look, I, in January, this year, I was attending a dialogue in New Delhi, India representing the Australian delegation of 15 people on the Australia, India, bilateral dialogue, and having been away from that part of the world and Asia and Southeast Asia for so long. I think for a moment there, I actually had also forgotten that I need to re-engineer my mindset. That week was a great refresher because we spent, we, we spent some conscious time unpacking the, uh, not just the synergies, but also the differences in management and communication styles, um, between different countries and cultures. Right. And having worked in Australia for so long, you gradually just, you know, and, and you, you just can sometimes forget that you have to constantly keep optimizing. So to answer your question. Yeah. I am probably training myself as best as I can while still being in Melbourne, to change certain styles. I'm investing a lot of time, um, speaking and listening, um, um, deliberately listening to my colleagues in Malaysia. So again, I'm in preseason at the moment and I'm putting in the work

Renata: Well then, congratulations, your new job. We will, you know, be watching you and monitoring how you go and letting the listeners know where you, where you're going when you're able to announce it. And thank you so much for making the time for the podcast.

Mohit: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

About the Host

Hello, I’m Renata Bernarde, the Host of The Job Hunting Podcast. I’m also an executive coach, job hunting expert, and career strategist. I teach professionals (corporate, non-profit, and public) the steps and frameworks to help them find great jobs, change, and advance their careers with confidence and less stress.

If you are an ambitious professional who is keen to develop a robust career plan, if you are looking to find your next job or promotion, or if you want to keep a finger on the pulse of the job market so that when you are ready, and an opportunity arises, you can hit the ground running, then this podcast is for you.

In addition to The Job Hunting Podcast, on my website, I have developed a range of courses and services for professionals in career or job transition. And, of course, I also coach private clients.